the Fly Clone Project

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:30 pm I’d recommend moving forward with some sort of functional on/off switch in mind...

Yes, I'll add in the switch. Seems pertinent, and if I find out I didn't need it, then great.

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:30 pm I’ve never actually tested this;...

First order test: Does the LED switch turn on when you don't have any cables plugged in, if not, what cables do make it turn on?

If it doesn't turn on and you're willing:
Second order test: Leave that switch on, no cables plugged in, wait a week (depending on how many mAh your battery is) and see if it still has the same voltage.

@Augustonian, the Belew switch LED is powered in parallel with the Sustainiac by its battery, and illuminates whether a cable is plugged in or not. I think my last post in the Supreme thread alludes to my wanting to confirm if soldering the standby wire to an isolated “sleeve” lug on the 1/4”-out is sufficient to use the jack itself as a standby switch. Your suggestion has rekindled my curiosity.

As an update, I think I'm going to go with the Polydrive-Sustainer set up almost exclusively to avoid the double battery or double cable situations I would have had other wise.

I may change the controls and such, but they'll all revolve around these two systems.

On another note, Maybe I should just take a trs plug and use that as my switch

Augustonian wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:02 pm As an update, I think I'm going to go with the Polydrive-Sustainer set up almost exclusively to avoid the double battery or double cable situations I would have had other wise.

Being as the PolyDrive will be powered via 13 pin connection, do you intend to run the buffered mag/piezo mono signal exclusively down pin 7, or in parallel with the 1/4” jack for potential dual cable signal routing? Note that the now-standard pin 7 “guitar-out” routing offered by most guitar synths would make the latter somewhat redundant in use (unless you’re laying down several guitar tracks simultaneously with one instrument).

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 5:50 pm do you intend to run the buffered mag/piezo mono signal exclusively down pin 7, or in parallel with the 1/4” jack for potential dual cable signal routing?

I'm mulling this over currently. I've got a few potential choices:
-Add more back switches: add a switch so the mag and sustainer can run purely on their own out of the 1/4".
-Run parallel, as mentioned. I prefer using one cable, but I can see a recording advantage to this particularly in the case where I kept the piezo and mag separate and when out to TRS. Again, another switch, or route my piezo/mag switch to be an output selector. (ex. 1. piezo to TS, Mag to GK 2. Both to GK 3. Mag to TS, piezo to GK) which might be useful, not sure.

I guess the issue that comes up is who gets the tone/volume controls however.

Likely, I'll do the first one, since I don't want to double the vol/tone controls, as I'm not keen on tacking down concentric or dual push pulls for such a thin guitar. It will also mean I can use the guitar much like my other guitars minus piezo if I am not looking to haul all my gear for a jam or something.

After almost a month, I'm back. As an update, I've got about all the parts I want for the project, other than some last idle thoughts rolling around in my head. I've received my Sustainer and I ended up ordering a Polydrive from RMC, which was an old shcool process but fairly quick for those who may be interested in the future.

Here's the schematic: I've got the following controls on front:
1. Volume (COOL circuit from RMC) and sustainer on/off
2. Tone (COOL circuit from RMC)
3. Sustainer Harmonic Mode
S1. A freeway 03 toggle. Positions are

1. Neck
2. Bridge + Neck
3. Bridge
4. Neck + Piezo
5. Piezo
6. Bridge + Piezo

S2. Synth/Mix/Guitar switch. I really only added this as I couldn't think of another thing I could use it for! Honestly, I'd fill it in if I didn't have an aesthetic aversion to it.

The Blend and Power will be accessed from the back. I'm planning on making a new back plate with a hole to adjust an appropriately valued trim pot. I will likely make a circuit board to mount it on and to simplify a little bit of wiring. Also, I'll mount the switch for the sustainer here as well. I think the single battery will fit in the compartment if I place is just right. I'll make the back plate after everything is wired in, just in case I need to place the battery in a similar place to the Belew.

Anyway, I'll be doing the wood work and wiring over my winter break so I may get a wild hair to add some other oddity, but in the mean time, I'll be making the circuit board.

Looks like a solid set of choices. You won't be sorry about choosing RMC.

I think you can skip the S2. Synth/Mix/Guitar switch. I've moved away from that in 2 recent mods and found I can just leave it on mix and bury the switch in the cavity to re-visit if I ever decide I need it again. You just have to turn down the volume of whatever you don't want.

This was the latest set of choices with the goal of "no more holes" or "no more knobs!"

Here's what it would look like with the RMC instead of GK3.
Good luck with the build! Its the exciting part!

jb63 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 9:58 am Looks like a solid set of choices. You won't be sorry about choosing RMC.

I think you can skip the S2. Synth/Mix/Guitar switch...

I considered it! But I've got two switch holes there, and without it, only one of them is used. In this case, I decided that it is easy to add that control on, and if I don't have another use for that particular switch, I might as well add it.

That being said, if I were to have another idea of things to do with this guitar, that would be the first one to go.

Howdy fly folks, it's been a minute! Turns out grad school is time consuming. I'm still chipping away at my fly though (almost literally!)

In the time since my last post I've done the needed woodwork on the guitar and am in the middle of wiring it up!

Something useful for those of you who are going to install a sustainer and remove the inserts: they can be removed by applying a little bit of heat. I set my soldering iron to 250 F, then gently pulled a screw inserted into the insert. Repeating this eventually got both out with very little fuss. Other than doting on details which are better explained after the fact, I'm somewhere in the middle of soldering the 80 solder points needed for this project: It's chaos for now. For those worried that I'm doing everythinga t once, I'm soldering both parts, but I have them separated so that I can remove the sustainer once I want to test the Polydrive, then I can insert the sustainer circuit when I've confirmed proper functionality on the Polydrive.

You'll notice there is a red 4 pole switch I've put in. This switch does all the switching actions of the sustainer with positions off/harmonic mode/mix mode. I still have the 250k pot for the harmonic content, but I've decided to use the switch on it for the battery disconnect. I don't really enjoy having to baby the backplate when I take it off, so I figured it is best to minimize the number of new wires I'm adding to the backplate. I'm sure someone out there has done something similar. I had sourced slide switches with 2mm slide switches, so if someone is interested in what I chose I can pass those along. At the end of this I'll likely write up what I did, and what parts I used for posterity.

On the note of the backplate battery wires, I've put in JST connectors so I can remove the backplate entirely without risking pulling a wire or something. I'd recommend that to anyone with a refined fly to make the life of you or your guitar tech easier!

I've also decided to keep the battery in the main chamber, as there is actually space since I'm not using many push pots. It will go on top of the tone and PU selector. I'm currently making a CAD model to make a new backplate with the update placement. I will likely make the sketch available as a DXF for those who may want to print an easier to customize backplate. I'll either print or CNC my new backplate depending on what feels more attractive at the time.

Again, I thank you for documenting and sharing your project, @Augustonian. I’ve added and credited your helpful tip about loosening the threaded inserts with a soldering iron prior to removal to the Sustainiac installation guide.

After talking to @mmmguitar about controlling a sustainiac on a single control, I put together an idea for a circuitboard to balance flexibilty and simplicity for controlling the sustainer with one switch.

Taking a Dimarzio 4PDT Three position switch, 3 DIP switches which can be switched by accessing the cavity. Basically, the idea is that the positions should generally be [Off/Mode1/Mode2] where modes 1 and two are selectable. If DIP1 = 1: Mode1 = fundamental, Mode2= Overtone. If DIP2 = 1 (DIP1 should be zero here) then Mode1= a harmonic mode chosen by the third DIP, Mode2= Mix mode. The third dip only affects the mode paired to mix mode. Most of the sustainer wires can then be relegated to this board, minimizing how many wires you'd have crossing your guitar and cause ruckus.

Here is a hasty truth table saying exactly what the paragraph above does: Anyway, I likely would add the battery connections, and the power switch onto this board. I plan on looking into how well this would work (by making it and seeing what happens) between getting ready for a conference in March.

In terms of the guitar, I'll post a more detailed update, but I've wired and tested everything Polydrive (sounds great!) and am going to hastily tape a battery to test the sustainer functions. Sometime this weekend I'll put up more details and files for the circuitboard and backplate.

Here's the aforementioned update:

The guitar is done except for the new backplate, and testing/powering the sustainer. That part will come in time, once I get around to printing the new backplate.

Here are the pictures: (just ignore my scattered tools)

It plays great, sounds great. It sounds a bit less vibrant than my green pre-refined Deluxe, and the tension feels a bit lighter with the same strings, oddly enough. It has a 9+ string, so I assume that it is not quite for a 9s. Anyway, since it was so loose, it immediately made me start monkeying with the nylon sounds on my GP10. They're serviceable but lacks the fullness in the low strings and the transients of the high. It did make me want to get some sort of electric classical guitar.

I've also gotten it ton control my synths to great success. With proper blending, I can probably get away with the small lag in a live setting without it feeling off.

For those interested, you can see I put a circuitboard to handle the power and the polydrive, which I designed and ordered from OSH PArk in groups of three for about 5 bucks. BOM here

Absolutely gorgeous, @Augustonian. How is the sustainer driver performing at that distance from the strings? If you're happy with it, I'll probably deepen the rout of my Belew to allow for it (I pick over the neck pickup; and prefer as much clearance as I can get away with).

Thanks! I am a bit picky in my wiring and like things to be clean so I can track things easier when problems come up.

As for the sustainer: driver is about 5mm from the strings.
I just slapped a battery in and didn't get much of anything, so it needs something but I don't know what yet. My first guess is the shielded cables I used to connect the driver wires to everything else: I have continuity between the switch and the gray wire w/ 2.5 ohms resistance, which I need to verify if that is expected by measuring the driver. I'll be going through testing eventually, and I'll let you know if it is a height issue or not! This height should be ok, I seem to remember it being close to Alan-spec, but it is a bit farther than my nitefly.

Augustonian wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 1:43 pm Here's the aforementioned update:

The guitar is done except for the new backplate, and testing/powering the sustainer. That part will come in time, once I get around to printing the new backplate.

Here are the pictures:
PXL_20240204_174255586 (Large).jpgPXL_20240204_174227689 (Large).jpg (just ignore my scattered tools)

It plays great, sounds great. It sounds a bit less vibrant than my green pre-refined Deluxe, and the tension feels a bit lighter with the same strings, oddly enough. It has a 9+ string, so I assume that it is not quite for a 9s. Anyway, since it was so loose, it immediately made me start monkeying with the nylon sounds on my GP10. They're serviceable but lacks the fullness in the low strings and the transients of the high. It did make me want to get some sort of electric classical guitar.

I've also gotten it ton control my synths to great success. With proper blending, I can probably get away with the small lag in a live setting without it feeling off.

For those interested, you can see I put a circuitboard to handle the power and the polydrive, which I designed and ordered from OSH PArk in groups of three for about 5 bucks. BOM here

That is very, very pretty! What a cool wiring job!

mmmguitar wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 3:08 pm How is the sustainer driver performing at that distance from the strings?

Of course I hadn't connected my reds and blacks on my sustainer properly... but it works and it definitely has enough gain! I had to turn it down a little bit as well from whatever setting came with. I've some some slight warble in the top frequencies when the driver is on so I may drop my pickup before I chase for ghosts in the wiring, may also change how I feel on the height.

Patzag wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:14 pm That is very, very pretty! What a cool wiring job!

Thanks! I'm pretty happy with it! We'll see how long it stay though, since I am considering testing my new sustainer board on this guitar... We'll see!